Hascher von Kesswil TG

[LucieG]

Guten Tag,

Ich bin Lucie Guilliot und ich bin die Gattin von a absteigend von der Hascher familie. Wir sind Franzosen.
Ihre Vorfahren ist Anna Maria HASCHER geboren 3 April 1819 in Kesswil.
Ich Weiss sein Vater Johann Conrad HASCHER (geboren 16 Juni 1785) und sein Großvater Hans Conrad HASCHER sind geboren, verheiratet und vielleicht in Kesswil.

Wie erhalte ich weitere Informationen?

Danke Schön.

[Wolf]

Zuerst einmal: herzlich willkommen im Forum!
Unter viewtopic.php?t=31398 finden sich einige (hoffentlich) nützliche Tipps zum Gebrauch des Forums - leider sind nur einige auf Englisch oder Französisch abrufbar. Das Forum ist aber mehrsprachig - am besten schreibt Jede(r) in der Muttersprache - ist aber nicht erstaunt, wenn in einer anderen Sprache geantwortet wird.
Ich wünsche viel Spass und Erfolg im Forum!

Zur Frage Hascher von Kesswil:
Da kann ich zuerst einmal nur bestätigen, dass Hascher seit vor 1800 in Kesswil Bürger waren.
Die Kirchenbücher von Kesswil sind bei familysearch online abrufbar (https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/50959) - allerdings nicht von zuhause, sondern nur von einem der Forschungszentren aus. Die Tauf-, Ehe- und Totenbücher vor 1875 sind allerdings indexiert (https://www.familysearch.org/search/rec ... ber=995237) - und das kann von zuhause aus aufgerufen werden. Ich kann nicht sagen, ob die Indexierung komplett ist - auf jeden Fall muss mit Lesefehlern gerechnet werden: die Einträge müssen also immer anhand der Original-Kirchenbücher kontrolliert werden.
Die beiden Taufeinträge (3 April 1819 bzw. 16 Juni 1785) finde ich in diesem Index nicht - aber, wie gesagt, die Indices sind oft nicht komplett.
Neben den Tauf-, Ehe- und Totenbüchern gibt es Familienbücher und Haushaltungsverzeichnisse, die oft eine grosse Hilfe sind.

Vielleicht erforscht ja auch ein anderes Forumsmitglied und kann hier besser weiterhelfen.

[Debra Palmer]

Ich bin Lucie Guilliot und ich bin die Gattin von a absteigend von der Hascher familie. Wir sind Franzosen.
Ihre Vorfahren ist Anna Maria HASCHER geboren 3 April 1819 in Kesswil.
Ich Weiss sein Vater Johann Conrad HASCHER (geboren 16 Juni 1785) und sein Großvater Hans Conrad HASCHER sind geboren, verheiratet und vielleicht in Kesswil.

The images are copies (from familysearch) of the 1819 baptism entries in Kesswil and Güttingen for A. Maria Hascher, daughter of Johann Conrad Hascher and A. Maria Vogt.

The first image is the entry in "Kesswil" for "Maria Hasher" and I think the surname "Hasher" could be a spelling variation of "Hascher"? Also, a note written there mentions "getauft in Gütting(en)".
The second image is the full page for the baptisms in Kesswil (entry 6 is Maria Hasher).
The third image is the entry in "Güttingen" for "A. Maria Hascher", where I think the baptism took place.
The fourth image is the full page for the baptisms in Güttingen (fifth entry is A. Maria Hascher).
Some of the entries in the year 1785 were removed for attachment and perhaps the image could be reformatted?

Comment: Both of the entries were indexed by familysearch. The surname in the record in Kesswil was indexed as "Hocher" and in the record in Güttingen the surname was indexed as "Hapfer". As the contributor in the previous post explained in a comment about familysearch indexing, reading errors are often to be expected (paraphrased). Such errors make it more difficult to find an ancestor when using the familysearch index tool.

Further entries for the Hascher family are being checked at the moment.

[Debra Palmer]

Images for Güttingen:

[Debra Palmer]

The image is a copy (from familysearch) of the 1785 baptism entry in Kesswil for Johann Conrad Hascher, son of Hans Conrad Hascher and Dorothea Kollbrunner. A copy of the full page for the baptisms in Kesswil is attached (ninth entry is Johann Conrad Hascher). Some of the entries were removed for attachment and perhaps it could be reformatted.

[Peter.D]

There are also digitized family registers for Kesswil, which should cover the period in question and could also be helpful here.

Peter

[Wolf]

Debra has provided me with the following entry from the Familienbuch Kesswil-Dozwil "1802":

Kesswil-Dozwil-Familienbuch -1802-Hs-Conrad-Hascher_8014271-img786-p22.jpg

I try to summarize:
Weibel Hans Conrad Hascher died 24.09.1831; he was married with Anna Barbara Wagner (unsure, as crossed out > solution), who died 07.03.1817.

Their son Johann Conrad Hascher, Lieutnant, was born 16.06.1785 and married 11.12.1817 Anna Maria Vogt from Güttingen, born 28.09.1793 as daughter of Caspar Vogt and Anna Katharina Hanselmann. The couple was divorced in 1819. She married a second time on 26.08.1823 in Güttingen with Hans Konrad Hanselmann.

Their only child was Anna Maria Hascher, born 03.04.1819 and baptised in Güttingen on the 4th. "neoc" (I assume confirmation) took place in 1835. On 09.02.1843 she married Meister Konrad Hanselmann, Schneider, of Güttingen.

Johann Conrad Hascher married a second time on 17.08.1820 Anna Barbara Schweizer, born 20.04.1789 as daughter of Johannes Schweizer of Schönenberg, parish Sulgen, and Elisabetha Kuhn. The couple had 8 children: Anna Margaretha (1821), Johann Jakob (1822), Anna Barbara (1823), Dorothea (1825), Anna Barbara (1826) Konrad (1828), Anna Elisabetha (1831), Susanna (1832).

[Peter.D]

Dem Katalog des StATG entnehme ich am Beispiel von Gachnang, dass die evangelischen Ehegerichte jener Zeit auf Stufe Kirchgemeinde bestanden, was in der übrigen reformierten Schweiz wohl eine Ausnahme bildet. Kesswil erscheint jedoch nicht im Bestand des StATG, daher befinden sich die ehegerichtlichen Urteile wie insbesondere Scheidungen von 1819 möglicherweise noch bei der Kirchgemeinde - oder der Katalog ist nocht nicht vollständig.

Peter

[Debra Palmer]

Thank you very much Wolf, for translating and summarizing the Familienbuch entry for Hans Conrad Hascher. The information is helpful!

[Wolf]

Weibel Hans Conrad Hascher died 24.09.1831; he was married with Anna Barbara Wagner (unsure, as crossed out), who died 07.03.1817.

According to the baptismal entry 16.06.1785 Johann Conrad Hascher was the son of Hans Conrad Hascher and Dorothea Kollbrunner (not Anna Barbara Wagner).

Hans Conrad Hascher and Dorothea Kollbrunner got married 24.08.1784 in Kesswil:

Kesswil-Ehe-17840615-17850619.jpg

The bride's date of birth is given as 14.11.1751. Dorothea Kollbrunner dies 05.11.1802 (note: the "Sep:" does not stand for September, but "sepulta" = buried), aged 51 years minus 9 days, from "Lungengeschwür"(lung abscess):

Kesswil-Tote-18020911-18030916-img503k.jpg

Conclusion: Anna Barbara Wagner must have been Hans Conrad Hascher's second wife.

Further discussions on Kollbrunner, please, in the separate topic Kollbrunner von Hüttwilen TG.

[Wolf]

Thank you, Debra, for confirming dates and places of the two baptisms 1785 and 1819.

The first image is the entry in "Kesswil" for "Maria Hasher" and I think the surname "Hasher" could be a spelling variation of "Hascher"?

I wouldn't consider this a spelling variation - just a sloppily written "sch" .

The second image is the full page for the baptisms in Kesswil (entry 6 is Maria Hasher).
The third image is the entry in "Güttingen" for "A. Maria Hascher", where I think the baptism took place.

The entry in Güttingen will be the more reliable one. With "A. Maria" likely the Maria was considered the "more important" part - and the A. (Anna) was just ommitted in the Kesswil copy.

Comment: Both of the entries were indexed by familysearch. The surname in the record in Kesswil was indexed as "Hocher" and in the record in Güttingen the surname was indexed as "Hapfer". As the contributor in the previous post explained in a comment about familysearch indexing, reading errors are often to be expected (paraphrased). Such errors make it more difficult to find an ancestor when using the familysearch index tool.

We just have to consider these indices a tool which might(!) help to find an entry. If someone is indexing pages and pages of records, this person will just not have the time to carefully check the reading (as we do this here, concentrating of selected entries) - and in many cases these volunteers will not be really familiar with which names are common in a parish. Despite all errors we should still appreciate the time and effort these volunteers put into indexing. I'm sure you'll agree .

[Debra Palmer]

Wolf,

thank you for answering my questions about the spelling variation and omitted given name - that is helpful.

Yes, I agree and also appreciate the time and effort of the volunteers who index the records that are so useful to me and others! Your tip about using "indices" is well taken and thank you for pointing out the challenges for the persons who index old church entries in German.

I have done a bit of indexing myself and understand it is not easy, especially reading (in English of course not in German) old cursive handwriting.

Thank you again,
Debra

[Wolf]

So by now we have the follwing ancestors' list (numbering following the Kekule system):

1) Hanselmann N.N.

2) Hanselmann Johann Konrad, * 05.10.1820 (des Johann?)
oo Güttingen 09.02.1843
3) Hascher Anna Maria, * 03.04.1819, ~ Güttingen 04.04.1819

6) Hascher Johann Conrad, Lieutnant, * 16.06.1785, ~ Kesswil 19.06.1785
oo Egnach 11.12.1817 (geschieden 1819)
7) Vogt Anna Maria, * 25.08.1793, ~ Güttingen 28.09.1793 (des Caspar & Anna Katharina Hanselmann)

12) Hascher Hans Conrad, Weibel, + 24.09.1831 (he ooII Wagner Anna Barbara, +1817)
oo Kesswil 24.08.1784
13) Kollbrunner Dorothea, * 14.11.1751, + 05.11.1802, □ Kesswil 07.11.1802

24) Hascher Zacharias, + before 1784

[Debra Palmer]

Thank you very much Wolf, for your time and work in translating and analyzing these records and also creating the "ancestors' list" for this Hascher family - the list is quite useful!

Debra

[Wolf]

The marriage dates are already given above - here follow the copies from the church registers (again provided by Debra Palmer):

Hans Conrad Hascher oo Egnach 11.12.1817 Anna Maria Vogt (Güttingen record, giving a date for the bride, almost 5 weeks prior to the date of her baptism - 25.08. vs. 28.09.1793 - might be a mistake or her date of birth - see comment):

Güttingen-Ehe-18170429-18180428-img198k.jpg

Johann Konrad Hanselmann oo Güttingen 09.02.1843 Anna Maria Hascher:

Güttingen-Ehe-18421002-18431231-k.jpg

[Debra Palmer]

Hans Conrad Hascher oo Egnach 11.12.1817 Anna Maria Vogt (Güttingen record, giving a date for the bride, almost 5 weeks prior to the date of her baptism - 25.08. vs. 28.09.1793 - might be a mistake or her date of birth)

The column heading (in the marriage record) for the date 25.08.1793 is "Tag d. Geburt", so it really could be the date of birth. Perhaps Anna Maria's baptism was delayed several weeks for some reason.

[Wolf]

Oooops - missed that. Thank you for pointing this out: I will add that to the list above.
Unlike in catholic parishes in reformed parishes we often see several weeks from birth to baptism ... 5 weeks is not that common.