Haas von Romoos LU

[entlebuch45]

I would be most appreciative of any information forum members can provide regarding Hans Albert Haas, assumed born between 1850 and 1890. Possibly the brother of (or at least related to) Arthur Josef Haas, husband of Maria Hafliger (1856-1926). Hans Albert Haas is recorded as the father of illegitimate son Franz Josef Haas (1908-1986) born to Rosa Frieda Haas (Werthenstein, 1892-1974). Franz immigrated to Australia in 1922 with his aunt (Rosa Frieda's sister) Mathilde Stocker, nee Haas (formerly Steffen), her two sons Theodor Werner and Xaver Ernst Steffen and her second husband Anton Stocker.

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urspr. Titel: Haas im Kanton Luzern

[Peter.D]

1. Do you know where Franz Josef Haas was born and what his origin (Heimatort) was? Has he retained his Swiss citizenship?

2. Was Rosa Frieda Haas really only 16 years old (1908-1892) when Franz Josef was born?

3. Was Haas the maiden name of Rosa Frieda? Was she related to Hans Albert Haas?

4. Has Hans Albert Haas formally recognized his son Franz Josef, with name, citizenship (Bürgerrecht) and all other civil law consequences?

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter D.
Thanks so much for your interest.
1. Franz Josef Haas is recorded in our family Stammbaum (Steffen of Entlebuch) as having been born in Luzern, as were his legitimate sister Rosa Trudy (Apr1919) and brothers Fridolin (Mar1920) and Erwin (Mar1929) - I do not have his personal place of origin.
2. Rosa Frieda Haas was in fact not yet 16 when she bore Franz.
3. Yes Haas was Rosa Frieda's maiden name.
4. I have no knowledge of whether Hans Albert Haas ever acknowledged Franz. We only became aware of Hans'
identity recently through gaining access to Franz' application for Australian naturalisation/citizership in 1929 in which he records Hans as his father in the Statutory Declaration therein. The application is in the National Archives of Australia.
Paul

[Peter.D]

Hallo Paul

Vor 1912 galt noch das kantonale Zivilrecht von Luzern. Bei der hier vorliegenden, aussergewöhnlichen Situation muss es verschiedene erhaltene Dokumente geben, die aber alle nicht online sind:

1. Den Eintrag im Geburtsregister A der Stadt Luzern von 1908
2. Den gleichlautenden Eintrag im Geburtsregister B 1908 der noch nicht bekannten Heimatgemeinde des Kindes bzw. seiner Mutter
3. Ein zwingend erforderliches Urteil des zuständigen Amts- oder Bezirksgerichts über den zivilrechtlichen Stand des Kindes und - sofern bekannt - die rechtlichen oder finanziellen Verpflichtungen des Vaters. Zuständig war zunächst das Gericht am Wohnort oder Heimatort des Vaters, falls nicht im Kanton oder nicht bekannt am Heimatort der Mutter.
4. Akten zu der über das Kind und die Mutter errichteten Vormundschaft oder Beistandschaft, vermutlich am Heimatort der Mutter
5. Eventuell ein Strafurteil gegen den unehelichen Vater, je nach seiner Beziehung zur noch jugendlichen Mutter. Das Strafrecht war damals ebenfalls noch kantonal geregelt.

Für die meisten der oben aufgeführten Dokumente und Urteile ist es wichtig, den Heimatort von Mutter und Kind zu kennen. Wenn die Geburt 1908 tatsächlich in der Stadt Luzern erfolgt ist, solltest du daher beim Staatsarchiv Luzern eine Kopie aus dem Geburtsregister A verlangen. Wenn du weit entfernt wohnst, werden sie dir dies vermutlich als PDF zusenden und nicht Einsicht vor Ort im Archiv verlangen.

Je nach Ergebnis können wir dann bei Bedarf die obigen Punkte 3 bis 5 weiterverfolgen.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply.

I will now bring what we have discussed so far to the attention of my cousin in Ermensee with whom I have collaborated on family genealogy matters in the past. Perhaps she will be prepared to follow your suggestions regarding the requests through the Lucerne State Archives as she has dealt with them previously.

I have a well-established login at the Archives but my poor German language skills are often a barrier to navigating their website and making successful discoveries.
I live in Australia, and am disappointed to think this line of enquiry only became necessary so soon after we returned from holidaying with family in Lucerne in October last. So much could have been done personally at that time.

Since I last wrote, however, I have been able to determine with some certainty that Franz' place of origin was Neudorf, and at the time of his immigration he was domiciled in Sursee. Further, his mother Rosa Frieda was from Werthenstein.

I am most happy to continue our conversation on this matter and to pursue further answers with your assistance also.

Paul

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul

If Franz and his unmarried mother really did have different places of origin (Heimatorte), Franz may have been recognized by his illegitimate father. As I understand it, however, this was only possible from 1912 onwards. The recognition would certainly have been subsequently entered in the birth record.
That's why it's important to request document no. 1 in my last answer. You can certainly submit your request in Lucerne in English. However, your cousin would probably have to go to the archives herself.

The passport register could also be interesting, although not online. At that time, children were usually included in the passport of their parents or accompanying adults, so you or your cousin would have to search the register under several names.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,

Following your suggestion I am happy to report that an email enquiry to the Archives met with immediate
success. Thank you.

According to the relevant entries in birth registers A and B, Franz was born/resident in Luzern
but his place of origin was Romoos as was his mother Rosa Frieda's (born/resident) of Werthenstein.
I probably should have picked her Heimatort as Romoos as it is that of her older sister (my grandmother),
but such consistency of Places of Origin is never certain I have discovered. Rosa Frieda subsequently
married Fridolin Josef Mehri (1891-1931) in Auw on 20th of April 1918. I now take it that the use of
Neudorf as place of origin in the immigration papers of each of the family members was simply a
convenient use of the place of origin of Mathilde's second husband Anton Stocker.

The archivist was unable to find any reference to, or identification of, the Franz' father; pointing out that
Haas is a very common name in Canton Lucerne and that perhaps consideration should be given to searching
for Johann Albert Haas as an alternative to Hans Albert. They are not, unfortunately, in a position
to conduct extensive family searches.

That said, he did add one item of interest that he came across regarding Rosa Frieda. On the 6th of February
1909, she and her father were convicted of theft by the Lucerne District Court (Bezirksgericht Luzern), and the proceedings were then transferred to the High Court (Obergericht)???

For your information and further consideration.

Paul

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

If the father is not named in Franz's birth record, then he was not recognized by him, neither immediately after birth nor later. From a civil law perspective, Franz therefore had no father. Is the alleged natural father Hans Albert Haas only evident from the information that Franz provided himself for naturalization in Australia? Sometimes a mere paying father (Zahlvater) was informally noted in pencil on the birth record - which is apparently not the case here either.

In any case, there should have been a judgment by the competent district court in 1907 regarding the illegitimate birth and the awarding of the child to the mother. The only question is which one. The place of jurisdiction depends primarily on whether a father was known at all and where he lived (Wohnort) or what his origin (Heimatort) was. I would start with the Entlebuch district court. If the state archives won't look it up for you, your cousin will probably have to do it.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
Thank you so much once again for your detailed reply.
I can confirm that "the alleged natural father Hans Albert Haas is only evident from the information that Franz provided himself for naturalization in Australia".
Out of interest we have sought more information from the Archives about the theft case involving Rosa Frieda and her father, principally to see if the identity of the plaintiff (if forthcoming) sheds any light on the missing/unknown father of Franz.
Have considered your advice regarding approaching a jurisdiction to see if we can find the judgement you referred to.
Will try the Archives as I am not sure my cousin would feel confident to pursue this; although I have not approached her about it as yet.
Which leads me to ask is your obvious expertise in these matters related to your profession?
Paul

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
The link you provided for the Entlebuch District Court appears to refer to records ending in 1907,
while Franz Haas was not born until May 1908. My cousin is going to attempt a search as you suggested. Is she likely to find subsequent years records easily?
Paul

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

When I open the link, I see the minutes from 1908 onwards just below (i.e. XB 8/7). If your cousin can't find the two persons she is looking for in the alphabetical index, she should look through these next:

- the minutes of the Sursee District Court
- the records of the district court of the city of Lucerne.

I recommend that she orders all three volumes in advance.

Peter

[Peter.D]

Hi Paul,

As you can see from Olivier's contribution, the Entlebuch District Court had jurisdiction over both Romoos and Werthenstein at the time in question, i.e. the mother's origin and place of residence. So there is a fair chance that this court had something to judge in connection with the illegitimate birth in +/-1908.

However, if the illegitimate father was known and lived in another community of the canton, a different court could of course have had jurisdiction.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
Again my sincere thanks for all your information and advice.
Have passed the latest information and the links to my cousin.
We now wait to see if we can achieve a successful outcome regarding
a judgement for Rosa Frieda and Franz.

Paul

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
My cousin has just advised me that she obtained the volumes 14/38, 8/57 and 8/7 referenced in our recent correspondence but unfortunately found no evidence of the judgement we were seeking. Have we run out of options in this regard
Coincidently, she was not able to find any record of our great grandfather (Rosa Frieda's father/Franz' grandfather) Josef Arthur Haas???
As for Franz' possible father (Hans Albert Haas) we will now consider using the services of a genealogist referred by one of the Lucerne archivists to try and shed some light on his actual existence or otherwise, and also details of Josef Arthur Haas if possible.
Kind regards,
Paul Steffen

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

No, you're certainly not at the end of the line yet. I'm pretty sure that there must still be documents on all the unanswered questions. However, it might actually be worth hiring a professional, especially if the guardianship files (Vormundschafts-Protokolle) in Romoos also need to be searched.

But two things first: do you have a copy of the birth record A from 1908 in Lucerne and can you upload it here? Have you also received a copy or an extract from the cantonal family register of Romoos (Ortsbürgerregister), which was established in the canton of Lucerne from 1903, mainly based on the national census of 1900 but usually reaching far back into the 19th century?
Rosa Frieda Haas should either have had her own sheet in the Romoos register or be listed on her father's sheet. Her son Franz Josef Haas was also listed in the same place until he founded his own family. There are often other references in these registers, e.g. to court judgments. The Ortsbürgerregister and new federal family registers (Familienregister) from 1928 onwards are held by the regional civil registry offices, in this case in Wolhusen. As direct descendants, you are entitled to extracts from these registers, although these are subject to a charge.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
Firstly I must apologise for not having replied to your last post sooner. However I have been away from home holidaying in nearby New Zealand and not had much opportunity to follow my genealogical interests as I would normally.
Now thank you again for all you have suggested and for your optimism.
In answer to your question about Franz' birth record, I have a copy of the the extract from Register A I received from staff at the State Archives of Lucerne. I will attempt to include it here.
Unfortunately I do not have an extract from the cantonal family register for Romoos. Would I simply write to the civil registry officer in Wolhusen and request all records held relating to Rosa Frieda? I have been in contact with this officer in the past with respect to my family tree. I do hold a copy of our Steffen Stambaum which includes Frieda, her parents, siblings, the birth of Franz (illegales Kind) and his emigration to Australia and subsequent marriage. It was passed to me by my cousin, some years ago and is understood to have been obtained from Entlebuch.
I have had a local professional referred to me whom I intend to brief in the next couple of weeks for the purpose of obtaining a quote for services relating to the identifying Franz' father if possible, and clarifying the guardianship issues to you which you have referred.
Paul

[Peter.D]

No problem, Paul, after more than 100 years it doesn't matter whether it's a week more or less.

A copy or an extract from the family register would be useful, although subject to a charge. However, you need to ask whether there are any pencil entries on the sheet, as these are not mentioned on a formal extract. They are not actually allowed to make photocopies - but some do anyway. Franz Josef is either listed on his mother's own sheet or together with his mother on the Haas-Häfliger grandparents' sheet. It is quite possible that they even opened a separate sheet for him when he married in Australia, if he remained a Swiss citizen and reported the marriage to Lucerne. If you have this information, you can still decide whether it is worth consulting a professional.

You may want to ask the city archives of Lucerne what was at the address "Würzenbach 655" in 1908 (mother's address at the time).

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
As a postscript, I can advise that we purchased a copy of Rosa Frieda's entry in the Romoos family register from Wolhusen which also reflects her parents names, her subsequent marriage to Franz Josef Mehri in 1918, her illegitimate son Franz Josef Haas' birth in 1908 and his marriage to Lilian Andrew in 1950 in Tasmania, Australia.
According to Wolhusen no annotations were evident on any of the related documentation.
Consequently, Franz' children and I have concluded that the identity of his biological father shall remain an unsolved genealogical mystery.
Thank you once again for your forbearance and all your comprehensive advice in this matter.
It has been greatly appreciated.
Yours sincerely,
Paul Steffen

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your feedback. Our previous findings and assumptions have now at least been confirmed. However, I am still pretty sure that there are references to the illegitimate birth in the records of the Romoos municipality (Gemeinderat = municipal council or Vormundschaftsbehörde = guardianship authority). The municipality was financially responsible for the sustenance of the mother and the child if no father could be found. It was therefore very interested in finding a paying father.

Perhaps you will pick up this trace again later.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,

Decided I would pose your latest supposition to registry staff at Wolhusen, and have just done so.
Not sure it is strictly in their job description, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If they cannot be of assistance, I may ask local genealogist (Felber) if it is something he would
consider worthwhile to pursue.

Many thanks again,

Paul

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
Unfortunately I have come to the end of the road where the father of Franz Josef Haas is concerned.
Since our last correspondence I have:
1. Obtained the family certificate from the Wolhusen registry. It told me nothing new. Only birth dates for Rosa as daughter of Josef and Maria Haas, her later marriage to Franz Josef Mehri, and the birth date of her son Franz Josef Haas and his marriage to Lilian Andrew in Tasmania, Australia.
2. Sought (as you also suggested) evidence of the illegitimate birth of Franz Josef in the records of the Romoos municipality, and of a paying father. They could only confirm he was a citizen of Romoos, but there was no further information about him locally. They also suggested it was quite possible that no such fathers were registered at the time, and thought it possible that fathers of illegitimate children could ensure their name did not appear in the register even by "buying their way out" (i.e. one off payment). They also advised that while Rosa was a citizen of Romoos she was resident in Werthenstein at the time of the birth, and that if she still had her papers in Werthenstein the child's paternity would have been established there.
3. A subsequent and similar enquiry to Werthenstein yielded a similar result. No entries for Rosa or her son in the guardianship files, birth certificates, etc. They also confirmed that in many cases the fathers of illegitimate children were not recorded in the books either consciously or unconsciously, but that the probability of finding something in Romoos would have been greater. They added that as Franz had in fact been born in Lucerne I should perhaps also direct my enquiries there.
4. Co-Head of Lucerne City Archives was most helpful, confirming that Franz had been born in the Lucerne Cantonal Hospital, but that in their version of the register no father is specified; only that grandfather Josef Haas is mentioned as the person registered at the civil registry office and that the birth was reported to the Romoos Civil Registry Office.
It was again confirmed that it was common not to make any entries about apternity for children born out of wedlock.
Furthermore, in the case of unmarried mothers, a guardianship or custodianship was usually established over the child and/or the mother. The guardianship authority or the guardian appointed by it then had to clarify paternity among other things, and, for example, ensure that alimony/contributions were paid. In Switzerland it was also possible to pay contributions for a child without being registered as the father ("paying fatherhood"). The child then did not receive the father's name or hometown, and was not entitled to inherit. Guardianship law was not uniformly regulated in Switzerland until 1912 with the introduction of the Swiss Civil Code (ZGB). In the city of Lucerne, until 1915, the citizen community of Lucerne was responsible for guardianship, not the local community (City of Lucerne). The citizens community no longer exists today having merged with the residents community in 2010. Since Franz Josef Haas was born in 1908, the files should be found in the citizens community. Unfortunately, in the 1960s the citizens community destroyed all older files relating to guardianship up to 1915 in consultation with the cantonal authorities.
Thus any guardianship files relating to Franz, whose mother lived in Lucerne when he was born, were destroyed over 50 years ago.
Sorry to burden you with so much final explanation, but more importantly I sincerely wish to thank you again for all the information, ideas and suggestions you provided me throughout my research on behalf of Franz' family.

Seasons greetings from Australia and best wishes,

Paul Steffen

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

My last hope was the last and new point in your summary, the files of the competent guardianship authority. But if these files were destroyed, a valuable source was of course lost!

According to the information you received from the State Archives, guardianship in the Canton of Lucerne was already being carried out at the place of residence (Wohnort) at that time and not at the place of origin (Heimatort). In other cantons, the Heimatort was still responsible at that time. Did Franz Josef always live in Lucerne until he emigrated?

Climate-wise, I'd rather be in Australia at the moment ...

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,
I you mean in the city itself, I don't believe so; more likely in the near vicinity.
His Overseas Migration form lists his Canton as Lucerne, his hometown/community as Neudorf, and his last place of residence as Sursee. Neudorf was the hometown/community of his step-uncle (Anton Stocker), my grandmother Mathilde Steffen's (nee Haas) second husband, with whom he migrated to Australia. I understand that Neudorf was a former municipality in the district of Sursee, but was merged into the municipality of Beromünster in 2013.

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

When the Swiss Civil Code came into force in 1912, Franz Josef Haas was still under guardianship. The provision in the law in force at the time stated:

Art. 377.
Ein Wechsel des Wohnsitzes kann nur mit Zustimmung der Vormundschaftsbehörde stattfinden.

Ist er erfolgt, so geht die Vormundschaft auf die Behörde des neuen Wohnsitzes über.

Die Bevormundung ist in diesem Falle am neuen Wohnsitze zu veröffentlichen.

Guardianship should therefore have been transferred to his new place of residence in each case. So if he was living in Sursee before emigrating, the guardianship files may still exist there - if they haven't been destroyed there too. There may even be something about this case in the Sursee residents' register.
In addition, the guardianship had to be published at each new place of residence - presumably in the official cantonal gazette, which unfortunately is not available online in Lucerne for this time period.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,

Well I contacted the officials at the Sursee City Archives regarding Franz, highlighting the fact that his last stated place of residence in Switzerland was Sursee. Unfortunately they were unable to find any information regarding Franz in their records. He was not registered in the guardianship or resident's register between his birth year of 1908 and his migration from Switzerland in 1922. There is no guardianship file in Sursee or anything similar.
They too thought that the municipal archives in Romoos or Werthenstein should have been the best possible sources of useful information, but as we already know from their respective responses this is not the case.
To summarize: his grandfather Josef Haas was registered at the Lucerne Civil Registry Office at his birth (although possibly not strictly in the context of guardianship?), and the birth was reported to the Romoos Civil Registry Office as it has confirmed.
There seems to be nothing more I can achieve in this particular genealogical pursuit so I will call it a day and in doing thank you again for all your wise counsel and support which has been both educational and invaluable.
With kindest regards,
Paul

[Peter.D]

Hello Paul,

I can well understand that you don't want to continue your search. It is not easy to do it from Australia, especially as the legal conditions and responsible authorities repeatedly changed during the period in question.
Have you ever asked the municipality of Romoos whether they still keep the guardianship files and minutes from 1908ff? As Franz's mother presumably had no fixed residence in 1908, the Heimatgemeinde could well have been charged to appoint and manage the guardianship (Vormundschaft) over the mother and son.

The address "Würzenbach 655" mentioned in the birth certificate of Franz belonged to a house that at least temporarily was the property of Franz's grandparents Haas-Häfliger. They apparently ran a carpentry business there. See PDF 124 in the fire insurance register.

Peter

[entlebuch45]

Hello Peter,

Since your last correspondence I have requested of Romoos on two occasions whether they had any guardianship files relating to Franz, but unfortunately have not elicited a reply of any kind. Assume they had previously told me all they could in previous exchanges and were not prepared to help further.

I now at least have a comprehensive HAAS family tree dating back to 1784 with which I am content, so will call it a day.

Thank you again for all your assistance and wise counsel. If I choose to research further in Switzerland perhaps we will be in contact with each other again.

With my best wishes,

Paul Steffen

P.S. Hope you are enjoying a pleasant Summer. We will be back to visit family there in October.