Gagnaux de Murist FR

[jmcdonald]

Hi, I am hoping someone can help me in the search for my beautiful Great Grandmothers family history. All I know is that she was apparently born as Victorine Alicia Gagnaux or Alicia Victorine Gagnaux on 13 Jan 1898 in Fribourg. Her only parent listed on her marriage certificate is Dominique Gagnaux, artist/painter. The family has always believed that she was illegitimate. At age 17 she met my great grandfather in Marseilles, France. They supposedly married there and then she was 'smuggled' back to England on his troop ship. There in Dec 1916, they had a civil service of marriage. She lived in England until she immigrated to Australia in 1956. She remained in Australia until her death in 1995. I have no idea about her family? If she had any siblings? Why a 17 year girl from Fribourg was in Marseilles during the war? Any assistance or advice that anyone could give would be hugely appreciated. I live in Australia and unfortunately am not able to speak or read French. I look forward to hearing from someone soon.
Regards,

Jo McDonald

[Peter.D]

Hi Jo,

If your Great Grandmother was really born in the city of Fribourg, I suggest you contact the Civil Registry Office in Fribourg:

http://www.fr.ch/secin/fr/pub/etatcivil ... sarine.htm

You should carefully document your descent because the civil documents after 1876 are specially protected by the law. The office will inform you about any charges before they send you copies or extracts. For your further research, it is top important to know the local citizenship of your GGM (Bürgerrecht, bourgeoisie); this could be the community of La Vounaise in your case, which now is part of the new community of Murist. In any case, this community is mentioned in the certificate of birth (e.g. originaire de ...). In a second step, the responsible office might also find the family of her father or - if not legitimated - of her mother in the federal Family Registers of 1929ff; with some luck, the community also preserves the old local Burgher Registers of the 18th or 19th century (Bürgerregister).

Many Swiss emigrated to Marseille at that time to find work or to further migrate from there.

Peter

[jmcdonald]

Thank you so much for your response Paul,

Unfortunately as I don't read French, I can't follow what is says on the link your posted?? What sort of documentation would I need to prove my relationship with my great grandmother?? The only evidence of her birth I have is her death certificate that states she was born in Fribourg on 13 Jan 1898. This was filled in by her children and would only show what they believed to be true at that time. The only other document is her marriage certificate (in England, 1916) that states her parent was Dominique Gagnaux, artist/painter, deceased. Is Dominique a masculine or feminine name is Switzerland? I always believed that this was her mother, but now realise that it could also be her father. Also, would there be a way to track the family belief that they married previously (1915/1916) in a Catholic service in Marseilles?? Would there be immigration records of her moving to Marseilles from Fribourg? I know that is a lot of questions and I very much appreciate any assistance that you may be able to provide.

Thanking you,
Jo McDonald (Australia)

[Peter.D]

Hi Jo,

Just use the e-mail address indicated on the page linked. List all facts you know, add scanned copies of all documents you have and wait for their response, which might be in French. Given these remote dates, I hope they won't be too demanding.

In French, Dominique can indeed be male or female. But the profession of artist/painter points more to her father in this period of time. However, at that time at least, the registrars in England did not verify the data presented to them and - as I know from my own research - even accepted wrong or fantasy names (common law rights) ...

The immigration to Marseille will be a second step. But I'm not sure if she left Switzerland officially and formally enrolled at the Swiss consulate in Marseille.

Peter

[jmcdonald]

Thanks Peter,

I have just received a reply from [Civil Registry Office VD, mail address removed], where they have found her birth registered! Her mother was Marie Elise Gagnaux, no father. Now I just have to work out how to order it in French! Do you have any ideas on how I could follow up on the Swiss Consulate that you mentioned previously, also your suggestion "In a second step, the responsible office might also find the family of her father or - if not legitimated - of her mother in the federal Family Registers of 1929ff; with some luck, the community also preserves the old local Burgher Registers of the 18th or 19th century (Bürgerregister).", how do I follow this up.

I truly appreciate your time and effort on my behalf.

Regards,
Jo McDonald

[Peter.D]

Hello, please copy the whole answer your received from the office. Why did you get an answer from the Canton de Vaud rather than Fribourg?

Peter

[jmcdonald]

Hi Peter,
Here are the responses that I received:

Good Morning,

Thanks for your e-mail.

In answer to your question, in our birth register Fribourg, unhappily, we don’t found something regarding your Great Grandmother Victorine Alicia Gagnaux.

This person is probably citizen from “La Vounaise FR”, in this case I recommend you to take contact with the competent office in Estavayer-le-La FR. They have certainly more details about your research, notably in the family register.

Best regards.


Fernand Bugnard, Officier de l'état civil

Madame, Monsieur,

Suite à votre demande adressée auprès de l'Etat civil de la Broye, nous vous informons que nous avons retrouvé la trace de l'inscription de la naissance de Gagnaux, Alice Victorine, fille de Gagnaux, Marie Elise, née le 13.01.1898 à Payerne.

Selon le registre des naissances, cette personne n'avait pas de père.

Si vous désirez obtenir l'acte de naissance original, nous vous informons que vous pouvez le commander et le payer directement en ligne sur notre site internet https://www.sec-vd.ch/etatcivil/index.php. Dès confirmation de votre paiement, le document vous sera envoyé par courrier.

Meilleures salutations
Anne Tröndle

Regards, Jo

[Peter.D]

Hello Jo,

I now understand that your GGM was born in Payerne, Canton of Vaud, out of wedlock. But her birth entry was found by the Civil Registry Office of the Broye district, Canton of Fribourg, because she and her mother apparently had the burghership (bourgeoisie) of a community in the Canton of Fribourg, most probably of the former community of La Vounaise, which is now part of Murist. Until 1928 the civil acts outside the own burgership community had been registered in the so called 'B Registers'.

The certificate of birth of your GGM will not reveal relevant additional facts beyond the burghership, profession and address of her mother.
I therefore suggest that you first send the following questions to the office of the Broye district:

1. Can you confirm that Marie Elise Gagnaux had the bourgeosie of La Vounaise (FR)?
2. Do you find the marriage of Alice Victorine Gagnaux in England in the B-Register of 1916 or 1917?
3. If you have an entry in the Family Register of 1929ff for Marie Elise or Alice Victorine Gagnaux, I would like to get a copy of that page.

Peter

[jmcdonald]

Hi Peter,
I will try your suggestions and see if I get lucky. Thank you for all your time and suggestions.
Best wishes,
Jo