GENEAL-FORUM

Bonjour,
Désolé de poster ce message en Français : je ne parle hélas pas Allemand… English text below.
Le trisaïeul de ma femme se nommait Christian Gustave TEUNTZ. Il est né à Moulins (Allier, 03, France) en 1844 et est décédé dans la même ville en 1910. Il s’est marié le 17/1/1870 Moulins avec Jeanne BONNEAU.
Le père de Christian Gustave était Gilbert Gustave THŬNTZ, né à Moulins le 14/1/1817 et décédé dans la même ville le 29/6/1872. Le 16/07/1841 il avait épousé, toujours à Moulins, Marie (dite Alexandrine) PINASSON, née le 13/5/1822 à Donzy (Nièvre, 58, France) et décédée le 4/4/1899 à Moulins.
Le père de Gilbert Gustave s’appelait Christian TOËNS. Il s’est marié à Moulins le 20 mars 1816 avec Pétronille SAULNIER, née dans cette même ville le 27 mai 1789. Selon l’acte de mariage, Christian TOËNS est né en 1785 en Suisse, Canton des Grisons, District de Haute-Engadine, dans le village de Tuntz. Il était le fils de Gaspard et Marguerite TOËNS. Selon le même acte, Christian était pâtissier et son père, Gaspard, aubergiste.
Selon un de leurs descendants, le nom de Gaspard TOËNS s’écrivait aussi DÖNZ et Gaspard avait un second fils également prénommé Gaspard.
Christian TOËNS a quitté la Suisse avant 1816, à une date que je n’ai pas pu déterminer.
Malgré mes recherches, je n’ai pas non plus pu retrouver le village de Tuntz en Haute-Engadine… Il ne se trouvait peut-être pas dans ce District.
Disposeriez-vous d’informations sur cette famille ?
Un grand merci !
F.M.

English text :
My wife’s great-great-grandfather was called Christian, Gustave TEUNTZ. He was born in Moulins (Allier, 03, France) in 1844 and died in the same city in 1910. On 17/1/1870, he married Jeanne BONNEAU in Moulins.
His father was Gilbert, Gustave THŬNTZ, born in Moulins on 14/1/1817 and deceased in the same town on 29/6/1872. On 16/07/1841, he married in Moulins, Marie (Alexandrine) PINASSON, born 13/5/1822 at Donzy (Nièvre, 58, France) and deceased 4/4/1899 in Moulins.
Gilbert Gustave’s father was Christian TOËNS. He was married in Moulins 20/03/1816 with Pétronille SAULNIER, born in the same city 27/05/1789. According to his marriage certificate, Christian TOËNS was born in 1785 in Switzerland, Canton des Grisons, District of Haute-Engadine, in a village called Tuntz. He was the son of Gaspard and Marguerite TOËNS. According the same certificate, Christian was a pastry-cook and his father, Gaspard, an inn-keeper.
According to one of their descendants, Gaspard TOËNS’s first name was also written DÖNZ and Gaspard got a second son, also named Gaspard.
Christian TOËNS entered France before 1816, at an undetermined date.
Despite my search, I could not find the village of Tuntz in Haute-Engadine… Maybe it was not in this District.
Would you have some information about this family?
Many thanks!
F.M.

Bonjour, il pourrait s'agir éventuellement du village de Putz dans la commune actuelle de Luzein, où - entre autres - les Dönz possèdent la bourgeoisie. Mais cette commune se trouvait dans le district d'Oberlandquart avant 2001.
Je vous propose de contacter les Archives de l'état à Coire, qui connaissent mieux la situation avant 1800.

Peter

@ Wolf: Bitte verschiebe den Beitrag in das Bündner Forum.

Merci Peter.
Je vais essayer...
J'ai aussi fait quelques recherches avec le patronyme DÖNZ, mais je n'ai rien trouvé...
F.M.

Bonjour,
(English text below)
Je n’avais initialement pas posté ce sujet dans le sous-forum des Grisons car je n’avais aucune certitude quant au lieu d’origine de ces personnes.

Cela dit, il semble que cette famille n’ait pas laissé beaucoup de traces !
J’ai découvert hier seulement que Christian TOËNS (qui a immigré en France avant 1816) avait aussi un frère, Henry TEUNTZ. Henry est décédé à Moulins (France, Allier, 03) le 25/03/1848, âgé de 58 ans. Il était donc probablement né vers 1790. Son acte de décès, enregistré à Moulins, mentionne le nom de sa mère, que j’ignorais jusqu’à présent : Marguerite MAYER. Il n’y a hélas pas d’autres informations.
Cela vous inspire-t-il ?
Merci !
F.M.

English text:
Initially, I did not write this subject in the sub-forum about the Grisons because I had no certitude about the place of origin of the persons.

Well… it seems that this family did not let many traces…!
I discovered yesterday that Christian TOËNS (who came in France before 1816) also had a brother called Henry TEUNTZ. Henry died in Moulins (France, Allier, 03) on 25/03/1848 when he was 58. So, he was probably born around 1790. His death declaration, registered in Moulins, mentions the family name of his and Christian’s mother: Marguerite MAYER. Unfortunately, no more information!
Does it help?
Thank you
F.M.

Christian Dönz ist in keinem Kirchenbuch aus dem Engadin und auch nicht in Luzein eingatragen. Hingegen ist Andreas Dönz geb. 18.12.1782 in Zuoz in Luzein eingetragen aber nicht in Zuoz. Am 11.11.1792 ist wieder ein Andrea Dönz geboren, hier ist der Eintrag in Zuoz aber nicht in Luzein. Meine Vermutung ist, dass er in Zuoz geboren ist aber nirgens eingetragen. Dazwischen ist noch Anna Peter und Hans geboren immer in Luzein eingetragen.

Kaspar Dönz geb. 20.12.1754 ist verheiratet am 7.4.1775 in Luzein mit Margaretha Meyer

Kinder:
Jacob 23.6.1776 Luzein
Verena 5.7.1778 Luzein
Caspar 26.1.1787 Luzein
Conradin 23.8.1781 Luzein
Andreas 18.12.1782 Zuoz
Anna 20.3.1783 Pany
Peter 20.9.1787 Luzein
Hans 8.9.1789 Luzein
Andrea 11.11.1792 Zuoz

Wenn sie mir die E-Mail Adress angeben kann ich ihnen noch mehr daten und Bilder senden

[Mail-Adresse gelöscht: das lädt nur Spam ein! Für direkten Kontakt (z.B. um die eigene Mailadresse mitzuteilen) bitte "PN" verwenden.]

Gruss carmen

(Texte français, English text below)
Bonjour,
Un grand merci pour ces informations concernant la famille DÖNZ!
J'ai vu votre premier message ce matin mais je n'avais pas le temps d'y répondre.
Je suis surpris que Christian ne semble enregistré nulle part...!
Je suis bien entendu intéressé par toutes informations complémentaires concernant cette branche de la famille de ma femme.
Je vous ai également répondu par "mail privé"
Cordialement
François MEIGNANT

Good afernoon,
Many thanks for the information about the DÖNZ family!
I got your first mail this morning but had no time to answer immediately.
I'm quite surprised by the fact that Christian seems not registered...!
I'm of course interested with any information about this branch of my wife's family tree.
I sent you an answer by "private mail" too.
Thanks again
François MEIGNANT

Hello I have Doenz ancestry. My Great Grandfather was Christian Doenz son of Hans Doenz and Anna (Loetscher) from Pany, Switzerland. He has brothers named Peter, Andrew, Leonard, Nicholas, and John. And one sister Leni. Most immigrated to Canada in the early 1900's. Could we be of the same family? Thank you for your time.
Brandi Campisi

Hello,
Here is the page of my tree concerning "my" Christian DÖNZ. Maybe they have the same origin, but it seems that it's not the same person than "yours": his father was named Gaspard...

http://gw.geneanet.org/aceras_f?lang=fr ... toens+donz

Good luck!
François MEIGNANT

Dear,

I am a Belgian genealogist and I discovered the forum on google.
This is my first message on the forum, please excuse the fact I am writing it in English, my written German is not good enough.

I am looking for Georg Donz (+1850 Brussels) birth certificate. According to his death certificate, he is born in Lutzen (Luzern?), Switzerland in 1800 or 1801.

It is probable that he was the brother of Jacques Donz https://gw.geneanet.org/marani?lang=en& ... ues&n=donz https://gw.geneanet.org/parmentier3?n=d ... &p=jacques

Indeed, they share the same name, the same job (confectioner), and their potential father left Switzerland before 1816.

Would you mind helping me to make this link?

Thank you very much,

Welcome to the forum, Lucien !

Dönz is not a name with citizenships in canton Lutern - but in Graubünden, including Luzein. Also Graubünden was famous for their confectioners, and many emigrated to France. I have therefore shifted your contribution to this topic (Dönz von Luzein), where people researching this family have already been involved.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engadiner_Zuckerbäcker

Thank you very much Wolf, it is very interesting !

I am now trying to relate Georg to the other Donz/Dönz/Toënz, ... Is it an online archive for Luzein for births in 1800-1801?

Best regards,

Lucien hat geschrieben: Mi 26. Jun 2019, 10:09Is it an online archive for Luzein for births in 1800-1801?

Luzein church records (1642-1875) have been filmed and digitized by the Mormons. Unfortunately Graubünden has not (yet) allowed to make these records freely available - you have to visit one of their Family History Centres.

I wrote to the nearest "Family history Centre", but no answer for the moment.

On the wedding act of the first belgian Donz, I found his parents names : Christian (farmer) and Anna Donz, from Luzein, GR.

Sadly, I couldn't find them among the other Donz/Toënz/Teuntz...

Maybe the birth certificate can give me his maiden name?

Best regards,

Hello Lucien, there is a Jori Tonz born to Christen Tönz and Anna Tönz 19 November 1801 in Luzein, Graubunden if that appears to be your ancestor I could post a copy of the birth record.

Bookey

Having grown up in the Grison, I believe that Jori is another form of Jörg or Georg. So I would suspect that this could be the man and is well worth more research.

Bookey hat geschrieben: Mo 8. Jul 2019, 01:14 Hello Lucien, there is a Jori Tonz born to Christen Tönz and Anna Tönz 19 November 1801 in Luzein, Graubunden if that appears to be your ancestor I could post a copy of the birth record.

Bookey

Dear Bookey, thank you very much for your answer ! I would be glad to see his birth record!

Thank you also MarkMu for the translation !

Best,

Hello Lucien, I am attaching a copy of the record from Luzein that I believe may be your ancestor. I hope this helps you with your quest.

Bookey

Bookey hat geschrieben: Mi 17. Jul 2019, 19:24 Hello Lucien, I am attaching a copy of the record from Luzein that I believe may be your ancestor. I hope this helps you with your quest.

Bookey

Thank you very much Bookey !

Now we have to relate them to the other Donz/Töntz

Lucien, I am attaching a copy of the birth record for Jakob Tönz, born 18 June 1799 in Luzein to Christen Tönz and Frena Lotscher. The mother is different from the other image I sent for Jöri Tönz. This complicates the problem since the mother is different for Jöri and Jakob in the Luzein records. This appears to be correct for the website you referred to in your post. Let me know what you think.

Bookey

Lucien, after I posted the previous reply I got curios and went back and looked to see if Christen and Frena had a son Georg. They did have a son Georg, however, he was born 1782. The couple were married Aug 1781 and the birth record for that Georg says he died in 1864. I don't know it this helps or just makes the water more muddy. I can send you copies of these other documents if you think this is right.

Bookey

Bookey hat geschrieben: Do 25. Jul 2019, 07:37 Lucien, after I posted the previous reply I got curios and went back and looked to see if Christen and Frena had a son Georg. They did have a son Georg, however, he was born 1782. The couple were married Aug 1781 and the birth record for that Georg says he died in 1864. I don't know it this helps or just makes the water more muddy. I can send you copies of these other documents if you think this is right.

Bookey

Thank you very much Bookey !!

I may be
- two different Christian Donz,
- or it could be the same one, after the death of his wife. (If we find out that the Georg born in 1782 is dead before 1801 and that Frena Lötscher is also dead before 1801.)

Do you know how we could find out?

Lucien

Lucien, I looked and did not find a death for Frena between 1799 and the 1801 record. The birth record for the Georg, born 1782, says he died in 1864 and there is no place mentioned. How sure are you of the 1800-1801 birth date for Georg?

Bookey

Bookey hat geschrieben: Do 25. Jul 2019, 18:35 Lucien, I looked and did not find a death for Frena between 1799 and the 1801 record. The birth record for the Georg, born 1782, says he died in 1864 and there is no place mentioned. How sure are you of the 1800-1801 birth date for Georg?

Bookey

Thank you Bookey !
Don't you think Frena could die between 1782 and 1801?
Birth date for Georg is deducted from his death certificate age : 49y, 3m, 5 d on the 22 december 1850 (there are often mistakes in these computations).

Lucien

Lucien, Frena was alive in the birth record I sent you for Jacob, the possible brother, in 1799. If that person is actually your family you would have to resolve the birth date for Georg.

Bookey