GENEAL-FORUM

Good afternoon,

First let me introduce myself. My name is Peter Miebies, I live in a village northwest of Amsterdam in The Netherlands and am interested in genealogy since the early 1980's. I am editor of the genealogical magazine published by the Amsterdam branch of the Dutch Genealogical Society (NGV). Also I try to write frequently in my genealogy blog http://www.patmcast.blogspot.com. I hope you don't mind my writing in English. Although I can read German (and a bit of French), writing it without too many mistakes is another matter.

My question concerns my wife's surname which is Orie. The first Orie arriving in the Netherlands is a Nicolaas Orie. He lived in the city of 's Hertogenbosch (a.k.a. Den Bosch) where he died on April 20, 1773. We know he had 4 or 5 children there. Also that his 2nd child was baptized there on April 6, 1745. Further details about his birth and when he arrived there are unknown. The assumption is that he came to Den Bosch being a soldier in what we call a Swiss Regiment. Before giving you a list of the regiments I am aware of, I have to tell you that the Orie surname has different spelling variations. Some of those (Hauri, Haury, Ory) I found in your country as well.

I have also seen that military records for the 18th century are available in all/most cantonal archives. Supposedly these archives also show names. There is just one small problem, I don't have a clue in which canton I should start. So my question is how I shoud best tackle this problem.
Does Switzerland have a kind of National Archive where all these military records can be consulted?
Have military records been made available on the internet?
Do you have any further suggestions on how to solve this problem?

For your information I'll list below the Swiss Regiments which have been in garrison in Den Bosch during the period concerned.
Swiss Regiment Lochman nr.1 (Albemarle/Werdmuller) 1716 - 1718 IR701d
Swiss Regiment Lochman nr.1 (Hirzel) 1742 - 1743 IR701d
Swiss Regiment May nr.5 (Chambrier) 1716 - 1718 IR697a
Swiss Regiment May nr.5 (Constant-Rebecque) 1731 - 1737 IR697a
Swiss Regiment Schmidt nr.4 (Schmidt de Grunegg) 1718 - 1719 IR693b
Swiss Regiment Schmidt nr.4 (Schmidt de Grunegg/Reydt) 1728 - 1731 IR693b
Between brackets is probably the name of the commanding officer, the period refers to the number of years the regiment was in garrison in Den Bosch. The number at the end is used here for identification; ite refers to the year the regiment was established (701 = 1701 etc.). All units are infantry regiments.

Below is a list of most Orie surname variations.
Aurie Haure Oree
Aurie Hauré Ori
Aury Haury Orie
Avry Havery Orij
Havry Ory
Hodri Ouri
Hodry Ourie
Hoerij Ourij
Hoerije Ourije
Hoery Oury
Hore
Horé
Houillie
Houllie

I hope you can help me and I am looking forward to your reactions.

Peter

Hallo Peter

Die verschiedenen Schreibweisen können sich auf unterschiedliche Namen beziehen, wie insbesondere Oeri (Stadt Zürich), Hauri (heutiger Kanton Aargau , damals Teil des Kantons Bern) oder Ory (heute Jura, damals Fürstbistum Basel).

Tatsächlich kamen viele, vor allem reformierte Schweizer als Söldner nach Holland. Zur Zeit der Revolution waren neben dem Regiment der Schweizer Garde noch 5 Schweizer Regimenter in Holland. Die Regimenter wurden in der Regel nach ihrem Gründer oder nach ihrem jeweiligen Eigentümer (Oberst) benannt und trugen ausserdem Nummern.

Diese Regimenter wurden aufgrund von Staatsverträgen (sogenannte Kapitulationen) mit einigen Kantonen errichtet, teilweise waren aber auch verschiedene Kantone an einem Regiment beteiligt und hatten z.B. nur eine oder zwei Kompanien. Die entsprechenden Matrikel oder Rödel sind daher in den jeweiligen kantonalen Staatsarchiven zu suchen, falls sie überhaupt noch vorhanden sind.
Für Bern und Zürich ist die Aktenlage gut. Online ist aber überhaupt nichts vorhanden.

Peter

Hallo Peter,

Thank you for your quick reaction and pointing out to me which names may be found where.
I imagine that these Kapitulationen will be available here in our National Archive as well. But I also assume that soldier surnames will not be part of those agreements. The best one can expect are numbers of soldiers. True?

I have difficulty in understanding the words Matrikel and Rödel. Can you give me a hint?

Am I right in thinking that to consult these archives in Bern and Zúrich, I would have to travel to these cities? Or are there other possibilities?

Peter

Ja genau, die Kapitulationen sind die Gründungsverträge und enthalten keine Personendaten.

Die Matrikel oder Rödel hiessen in Holland Stamboeken. Darin sind alle Soldaten und Offiziere mit Herkunft und Alter, Eintritt in das Regiment und Austritt verzeichnet. Zum Teil sind auch Beförderungen und andere Ereignisse aufgeführt.

Allerdings dürfte der Gesuchte auf Grund seiner Dienstzeit möglicherweise nicht in den erhaltenen Beständen in Zürich zu finden sein. In Bern ist die Abdeckung des fraglichen Zeitraums besser.

In Holland hätte man wahrscheinlich das führende H des Namens Hauri nicht weggelassen, im Gegensatz etwa zu Frankreich. Oeri oder Ory scheinen mir daher eher zutreffend, und von den beiden wiederum Oeri, da die Ory katholisch waren.

Zu den Oeri gibt es ein Archiv; ich empfehle dir, da einmal anzufragen, ob sie etwas über einen Nikolaus Oeri aus Zürich haben.
Wenn du da nicht weiterkommst, melde dich wieder auf diesem Forum. Ich kann dann bei meinem nächsten Besuch im Stadtarchiv von Zürich ca. Ende November einmal nachsehen, ob ich in den Genealogiewerken über die Stadtbürger einen passenden Nikolaus Oeri finde, der weggezogen ist.

Sonst bleibt dir wohl nichts anderes übrig, als gelegentlich in den Archiven in der Schweiz das vorhandene Material zu den Rekrutierungen und Regimentsbeständen durchzuforsten.

Peter

Peter, as per your advice I sent an email to the people of the Oeri archive. I'll await their answer and if the result is negative I'll gladly accept your offer regarding the Zürich Stadtarchive.
In any case I'll let you know what the result is.

In the meantime I found early 18th century records of Orij's and Ourij's in Eynatten which is situated in the German speaking part of Eastern Belgium and some 10 kms south of Aachen. I am continuing my investigations there as well.

Thanks again,
Peter

Peter,

I received an answer from Mr. Georges Raillard. He is the Verwalter of the Oeri archive.
Unfortunately he was unable to find a suitable Nicolaas Ouri in his archive. Obviously I did not really expect that but also a negative reply is a useful answer.
However, elsewhere he did find a Nicolaus Oeri in Liechtenstein. This person was baptized there in 1674; he was the son of Andreas Oeri. In theory this could be "my" Nicolaas but in that case he has reached the respectable age of 99 years. Of course that is a possibility be it a very remote one. So I'll keep this Nicolaus in file for the time being.

Therefore, I would be much obliged if you would have a look in the Zürich City Archive. You know best which Oeri surname variations to check. Thanks in advance!
In case you need more info please let me know.

Peter

Hallo Peter,

I noticed you mentioning the publication by Willy Pfister about Swiss military from Aargau in the Netherlands in the 18th century. Obviously I checked that publication for Hauri etc. but no result. The conclusion I draw from this check is that it is unlikely that my Nicolaas came from Aargau. Do you agree?

Another question is: are there similar publications for other kantons?

Peter

Hi Peter,

Unfortunately, the tremendous work of Willy Pfister is rather unique. There are some publications with names of soldiers in the French Regiments, but not with the accuracy of Pfister.

In the meantime, I could check for Niklaus Oeri in the Municipal Archives of Zurich. The christian name Niklaus does not appear at all in this large family, neither in the excerpts of the birth records nor in the genealogical tables.

Thus, you can probably exclude Hauri and Oeri from Switzerland.

Peter

Peter,

If it is not too much trouble I would certainly appreciate if you could do a check in the Zurich Municipal Archives. Although I don't expect anything it would give me the certainty of a confirmed no.

You said you can probably exclude Hauri and Oeri from Switzerland. Is that because those surnames are limited to the canton of Aargau? And the same goes for the other name variations?

Peter

Hello Peter,

I did already check it! Could was meant in the past tense, not as conditional ...

Peter

Sorry, Peter, I misunderstood. In any case, thank you very much for your efforts, much obliged!

Peter.D hat geschrieben:You said you can probably exclude Hauri and Oeri from Switzerland. Is that because those surnames are limited to the canton of Aargau? And the same goes for the other name variations?

I think I know the answer to the above but I like to be certain.

Again, thank you for your involvement,

Peter

Hello Peter,

You can only exclude Hauri from the canton of Aargau and Oeri from the city of Zurich. However, you have so many variations of the name, that it is impossible to determine the original spelling. I fear without additional documents, e.g. a paper signed by Niklaus X., you don't have a chance to find him - other than by pure chance.
But it's impressive, how many Hauri served in the Swiss Regiments in the Netherlands.

Peter

Ok, Peter, thanks for all your efforts! I'll continue my search elsewhere. Should I find anything interesting I'll let you know.

Peter